Curse

jkyarr · Apr 13, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

The purpose of this thread is to

1. State (and explain) your opinion about item decay in MMOs. For it? Against it?
2. If interested, brainstorm a possible implementation methodology for a meaningful item decay system that works in a sensible way that players can accept.
3. Tell us, do you think Anet should put it in GW2?

Obviously if you're absolutely against item decay in any form, there's no point in answering #2.

I have no idea if Anet will put item decay in GW2 or not, and this isn't meant to start any rumors. Just playing

advocate.

Alex the Great · Apr 13, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

item decay as like.....items losing stats over time?

in gw people pay a lot of money of cool looking weapons and a lot less making them good. It would really piss a lot of people off

Mouser · Apr 13, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

No, no no no no.

I played SWG for 2 years; Item decay sucks. I think it would go counter to the GW philosophy. Alex hit the nail right on the head.

Onarik Amrak · Apr 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Nay!

Item decay/Durability is a shoddy mechanic that should stay in the 90s. It's old style thinking. The mechanic is just a gold sink that forces the player into tedious, repetitive maintenance that could otherwise be avoided.

Blackest Rose · Apr 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

1. State (and explain) your opinion about item decay in MMOs. For it? Against it?

I hated Diablo because of item decay - I hate item decay - I hate it I tells you!

2. If interested, brainstorm a possible implementation methodology for a meaningful item decay system that works in a sensible way that players can accept.

ummm... don't do it....

3. Tell us, do you think Anet should put it in GW2?

No!!!!! No....... Don't give me a reason NOT to buy GW2!

Darth Kukulkan · Apr 13, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I'm for a decay system which works like on Oblivion : your weapon slowly decays when you use it, and it costs some gold to repair it.
On the other hand, I think it would be completly fool to make fully destructible weapons, players who paid for thoose would be pissed off :s

Realm of Fiery Doom · Apr 13, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I don't really like it.

I played MU Online where it had item decay, and it sucked, terribly. You had to pay to get your armor and weapons repaired every 3 hours.

Just plain no.

Bryant Again · Apr 13, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

First, what's your definiton of Item Decay? Is it when items become damaged and you have to repair them?

If yes, then it depends. While it is a decent gold sink, it's also very incovienient and annoying to the casual player.

Other than that I have no clue.

Vahn Roi · Apr 13, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

item decay as like.....items losing stats over time?

in gw people pay a lot of money of cool looking weapons and a lot less making them good. It would really piss a lot of people off

In the games I have played with ID, items never fully "rot away," their effectiveness just diminishes with time or when they are used to much. With that, there have always been NPCs that "repair" said items and make them as good as new.

Dougal Kronik · Apr 13, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Not too sure what you mean by item decay, but item durability I can see being implemented.

Where your items, and armor take damage from being involved in combat and can be repaired either by players with the skill or tradespeople in the outposts.

I think equipment durability should be in GW2.

jkyarr · Apr 13, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

1. I think the concept of item decay makes sense and adds an element of realism to gaming. I think that every implementation of item decay I've ever seen in any game absolutely sucked! Item decay adds a level of complexity to a game that one could debate is/isn't conducive to enjoying the experience of the game and may/not distract from the main focus/purpose for playing. All-in-All, I am for "the right" implementation of Item Decay
2. So what is "the right" implementation of item decay? I'll get back to my opinion in a subsequent post because I intend to make a proposal, give specific formulas, & point out the strengths and weaknesses of the system I think up.
3. Yes I do think it should be in GW2 for one reason only.... How else does Anet intend to control item rarity?

In GW1 green weapons used to be the bomb. As time has gone on the actual rarity of such weapons amongst the population has decreased. Yes... item customization decreases availability to an extent, but there are never repeat customers for the same item. As time goes on the game will inevitably become saturated with green weapons (I already have a around a dozen from me and my heroes). Was this the original design intent when green weapons were thought of? So what can be done to keep item rarity at a level that is in line with the original design intent? What does it do for game replayability? I don't count grinding as replayable content, so what would I do if my item wore out and I needed a new one? I'll undertake to account for these questions in my proposal.

Splatter Mcnasty · Apr 13, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

My vote goes with the "Hell No!" crowd.

Item decay in Diablo 2 was one of the most irritating aspects of that game.

SigurdTheBalmung · Apr 13, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

If by item decay you mean durability of the item, in a sense that it will break and have to be repaired before it is useful again such as in many other MMOs(WoW, EQ2, D&D Online...) I'm not sure if I would be for it or not.

Repair bills in MMOs are a form of money sink. It is an essential way of removing currency and in effect keeping the value of currency up as all players have to repair and the economy loses money.

With the current Guild Wars system, the economy is tightly controlled by Arena.net in the form of material, rare material, dye and armor vendors as well as the occasional salvage or ID kit. Arena.net's money sinks come in the form of non-required things such as prestige armor, guild halls and upgrades, skills buying. All of which are non-essentials.

Money sinks, such as repair bills, work only in an economy in which the majority of players control and craft materials. With the acquisition of most materials coming from a player grinding for themselves or from vendors and then being returned to the system, repair bills in the system would be more of a burden than just a simple annoyance as they are in say World of Warcraft.

Of course, in any MMO all money eventually returns to the system. But let's look at WoW for instance.(I know ppl don't always like it, but the economies in WoW are very good examples.) All materials(or almost all) in WoW come from the players themselves, with the exception of the most basic of materials(thread for example). The items created in WoW can be resold to any player(as long as they are not bind on pickup). So players are able to charge higher prices than cost for materials in WoW and make profit. In the current GW, you can't craft items to sell and make profit. This means the only income you get comes in the form of drops period. Unless buying a weapon or material from another player, all money returns to the system. There is no room for a large scale player run economy where money changes hand between user and user forcing the system to have a way to get rid of currency from the player base. The system in Guild Wars is predisposed to getting rid of money.

Unless GW2 has a large scale, fully functional economy where the player based is allowed to create and sell items, and the freedom to do so without having to be logged in(IE an auction house of sorts) I see no reason to have item decay, durability, or repairs because the system in its current form needs no more money sinks to keep the economy in check.

Absinth187 · Apr 13, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Item decay sucks. It's a useless gold sink that makes as much sense as your toon's hair growing and needing to be cut. I would much rather stick to spending my money in other ways.

jkyarr · Apr 13, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak

The mechanic is just a gold sink that forces the player into tedious, repetitive maintenance that could otherwise be avoided.

Did you just describe Skill Trainers?? Why do I have to farm for 1 platinum for each and every Factions and Nightfall skill I want my level 20 Prophecies character to be able to use?

My point is... a lot of things can be viewed the way you just described Item Decay. Bad implementations in other games is not an acceptable justification for being down on the concept.

Deleet · Apr 13, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkyarr

Did you just describe Skill Trainers?? Why do I have to farm for 1 platinum for each and every Factions and Nightfall skill I want my level 20 Prophecies character to be able to use?

My point is... a lot of things can be viewed the way you just described Item Decay. Bad implementations in other games is not an acceptable justification for being down on the concept.

It isn't?

We previously tried X idea and it sucked.
There does't seem to be anything new about my copy of idea X,
Then logically idea X will suck in my game Y.

blood4blood · Apr 13, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

jkyarr - you're making arguments before presenting your proposal. Let's hear what you propose & how it's different from prior implementations.

(Going by prior implementations, yes, item decay is a pointless and minorly annoying gold sink. I don't want reality or realism in a fantasy game, y'know? That's not the point. But if you've built a better mousetrap, let's see the plans before we start arguing about them...)

jkyarr · Apr 13, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigurdTheBalmung

This means the only income you get comes in the form of drops period. Unless buying a weapon or material from another player, all money returns to the system. There is no room for a large scale player run economy where money changes hand between user and user forcing the system to have a way to get rid of currency from the player base. The system in Guild Wars is predisposed to getting rid of money.

Unless GW2 has a large scale, fully functional economy where the player based is allowed to create and sell items, and the freedom to do so without having to be logged in(IE an auction house of sorts) I see no reason to have item decay, durability, or repairs because the system in its current form needs no more money sinks to keep the economy in check.

I couldn't disagree with your assessment of the current GW economy more STB. I've seen players with 1,000s of platinum... way more than any item in the game costs. The only factor in the game that has a price significant enough to be called a gold sink are the guild hall NPCs, and they were added as an afterthought and priced as such just for that purpose.

One of my biggest frustrations about GW1 is that everyone around me seems to be so flippin uber-rich that they can toss plats around without remorse like I toss skales. You've got to take a closer look at the flow of the money before you start using words like "economy". Fact is there's very little that serves the purpose of removing wealth from the economy because players ability to amass wealth has far surpassed the cost of NPC services. The increased usage of Runes of Superior Vigor and rise in the number Guild Hall NPCs are clear indications of that.

GW2 could be an entirely different economic paradigm, so that's a big wait and see, but for the purposes of excluding Item Decay based on an incomplete glance at the GW1 economy, I just don't see that argument having any substance to it.

zwei2stein · Apr 13, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Item decay is simply goldsink. Goldsink that is required for gameplay.

Make decay cheap and its just stupid anyance. There is no point in having it if its like that.
Make decay huge issue and it turns game to grindfest - farm gold for hour so that you can quest for couple of minutes. Not mentioning nightmare if items are not repairable.

Item rarity controlls are in amount of drops, hardness of area where they drop. Rare item becoming nonrare is always just matter of time in any enviroment ... make decay non-issue, it controlls nothing, only bothers people.

but breaking items so that you have rarity is ... doh ... who will gonna aquire rare item under those terms. who will play game where your achievements get every other day nulified and are thus pointless.

this kind of design force people to go out and ebay gold - either for utility repairs or for new items every other day.

for point of view of green farmer, its is positive development, but he will find out soon enough that ... people will not buy his weapon anymore, because they will realize that vendors and colletors offer essentially same thing but cheaper, or they would simply use white drops.

Would you invest 90e for bow that is gonna be gone in month?
Would you invest 90e to bow that will require 30e on repairs monthly?

EternalTempest · Apr 13, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Depends...

I love the idea of skill vs grind in guild wars and hope it stays in GW2.

If decay over time... if your log in or not.. then I will hate it.

If decay happens while only using ... or over time (while logged) in I would have to see how and what affect it has one what time before passing judgment but leaning towards no.

I don't cherish the idea of having to "repair" armor and weapons over use to act as a gold sink... unless it's dirt cheap. I would hate weapons / armor the degrade to the point of needing "replacement" even more.

But these impression on based on GW1. GW2 will be different disintegrating may fit nicely in to the different style of play.

Summary = Over all no, don't want, but if implement with GW2 .. have to see the new style of play and the system to make judgment.

I like the idea if easy access to max armor and weapons stats and you can grind / farm for "cool" version of it to show off it you would like.